ALAN LICHT

from Teen Looch #8 (1995)

While legions of today's so-called alternative rock guitarists most certainly have their cosmetics and appearance "down," few can even spit-shine the shoes of Alan Licht, a fellow who wears his influences like a fine babushka and delivers the goods as well. Besides being a massive force in various bands, including Rudolph Grey's Blue Humans and the late Love Child, Licht has collaborated with folks like Lorren Mazzacane, offered incendiary solo sets that would give Bruce Russell a run for his money if he ever got his ass to our hemisphere, and bomped around various other gigs (including a tour backing legendary ex-Love frontman Arthur Lee).

Today, Alan has landed in his current role in the much-talked-about NYC band Run On with Rick Brown, Sue Garner (ex-Fish and Roses), and David Newgarden (ex-WFMU music director who has also contributed musically to the Moles and Hamish Kilgour's Mad Scene). Describing Licht's musical aesthetic isn't the easiest thing, he's one of the few folks in the so-called scene that can incorporate technical precision/know-how with reckless abandon, the latter being exemplified with some vicious free-for-all guitar carnage in Grey's Blue Humans. Licht's contribution to Love Child ran the gamut from the Big Staresque pop of "Wait and See" to the reverent Cle-punk action of "Crocus Says" (a song whose closing solo may be the first wedding of Damaged-era Greg Glinn with Eddie Van Halen), while "Stumbling Block" took elements from the forever-drone bliss of LaMonte Young (whom Licht penned a comprehensive piece on for Forced Exposure) adding succeeding slabs of guitar wreckage.

But as the Monkees sang on their tour of war crime theme parks, that was then, this is now. Alan's work as of late is definitely sniffing out new turf, including ones not involving the six-string. As a genuine fan of all that's well in music past and present, Licht has pulled off the task of making a music steeped in pop/rock tradition that offers art-damage, conceptualization and a million other things as well. I saw him open for the Boredoms at Maxwells last year, performing two solo pieces that utilized nothing more than guitar and amp with a few odds and ends in ways not even Sonic Youth wouda thunk; by set's end a giddy Chris Knox was falling out of his sandals in amazement. One piece "Nikki Sixx," built a stark, mesmerizing soundscape out of a pummeled guitar patchchord and tube amp hiss, and appears redone on last year's infamous "Calvin Johnson Has Ruined Rock For An Entire Generation" 7" (18-Wheeler); Licht's solo exploits have also surfaced on a new Siltbreeze LP that features an extended Minutemen, uh, cover, that consists of a sample from "Polarity" channeled ad infinitum through delay whole descending pitch ala a reverse Spacemen 3/Tony Conrad extended excursion. More is on the way.

TEEN LOOCH: What's up in the world of Run On? You've been recording.

ALAN: Run On have an EP On/Off coming out in the spring on Matador, which is far superior to the single Ajax released last summer. That single was recorded after I'd been playing with Rick and Sure for only two months and was somewhat pre-mature. In fact, I don't even play guitar on "ordering" live anymore, I play organ. The band only clicked once Newgarden arrived. When he was in the Mad Scene he played super-simple organ and trumpet parts that totally held the songs together, and when Rick suggested getting a fourth member I immediately thought of him. He was also a friend and fan of both Fish and Roses, and Love Child. Musically, having the extra range of organ, trumpet, and percussion (also banjo!) to play with really took the ideas Rick, Sue and I were developing (unsuccessfully) to a logical conclusion not reachable as a trio, live, anyway. Also, it took the pressure off being in a band with a "couple"...these things often turn into parents/child style relationships and I now have a sibling, so to speak. Anyway, we've been playing out a lot, with folks like the Fall, Red Krayola, Loud Family, Codeine, Tsunami, Magic Hour, Versus, 3D's, Thinking Fellers, etc. We should be touring and doing a full length LP later this year. Gene Holder produced this EP, not sure who'll do the LP, hopefully someone who has never played in Yo La Tengo (ha, ha!)

T.L: After the demise of Love Child you've had a lot of different things going on. Is Run On fulfilling your "musical ambitions" for the time being?

ALAN: Well, my only real projects after Love Child were Run On (who literally called a day or two after Love Child broke up) and the solo guitar stuff, which I'd wanted to get out of my system for a while. In fact, during one of Love Child's desultory later rehearsals I was accused of only wanting to play guitar in a room by myself, which wasn't too far off the mark. As for my "musical ambitions," at that point I wanted to a) be part of a really great band where everyone contributed equally and b) a principal songwriter and "leader." Run On satisfies a) most of the time and b) not at all, but you never know...In the meantime I've recorded two hours worth of songs on four-track, some of which will be released by 18-Wheeler later this year. For a while I was rehearsing my own songs with people concurrently with Run On, but once we started playing live I decided to put my energy into that since I couldn't get a totally satisfactory rhythm section for my own stuff.

T.L: What exactly went on with that Maxwell's solo set? It looked relatively simple but I couldn't imagine how such little equipment generated such weird sounds.

ALAN: In "Nikki Sixx" I just unplug the guitar, with all my affect boxes still on, and rub the guitar chord on the amp, touch it with my thumb, wave it around, etc. It hums, feeds backs, knocks the reverb unit around, etc. But it's not just thrashing around, I try to sculpt it into something fairly linear, hence "tone poem." As Sharpling himself puts it, 'it's got pulse', which separates it from something like Hijo Kaidan, which is "merely" a wash of noise.

T.L: Has the "Calvin" 7" gotten any comments? I cracked up when I saw the sleeve.

ALAN: Well, Calvin has not been reached for comment... I was always more of a Heather fan, anyway... Jon Fine came up to me accusing me of "stealing" the title from (Sub Pop's) Nils Berstein, who originally coined the phrase. When I pointed out that I credited "all songs" on the record to Nils, he confessed that he hadn't actually bought or even heard the record, just saw the cover. It's not that much of a "statement," just a t-shirt Nils gave me. I have a t-shirt that says "Wheelchair Sports" on it, I could have called it that too. By the way, there's a track on the new Free Kitten LP called "Alan Licht Has Ruined Music For An Entire Generation."

T.L: I noticed your name in the credits for the Peter Laughner reissue compilation.

ALAN: I gave Clinton Heylin a Charolette Presler article on first-wave Cle-bands and a couple of tapes I got off (Back to Comm editor Chris) Stigliano that he didn't have so he thanked me on the album. I had more to do with his Velvets to the Voidoids book than with that CD. I really relate to Laughner in as much as he didn't seem to know whether he wanted to be Lou, Iggy, Dylan, Thompson, or Verlaine -- arty, folky, or punky, and neither do I.

T.L: I missed the first night of the Siltbreeze fest in Philly where you played. How'd it go?

ALAN: The Siltbreeze fest was a blast, though, I would've been more comfortable in a band situation, mostly 'cause the Bassholes, Thomas Jefferson Slave Apartments, and Guided By Voices were there with this kind of Ohio blue-collar lo-fi rock thing going on and I felt like this art-damaged NY jerk playing with his digital delay. Ron House accused me of "turning your back on pop," which was pretty funny if you ask me... I think Charalambides had the same problem. Iwas Friday/Saturday night in Philly and people understandably wanted to rock, not listen to process music or introspective psychedelia. Harry Pussy was a happy medium. I think, fifteen minutes of spazzed out noise but it was still a rock band. Not that I consider my Siltbreeze LP anything but rock. I mean if Discreet Music is rock then Again Process must be.

T.L: How's the Siltbreeze LP (Sink the Aging Process) being received? When did you record it?

ALAN: The LP was recorded months and months before the festival. It's done OK I guess. Occasionally someone mentions it to me, but not too often. I don't really know how it was received. Mike Watt really likes "Polarity" though, I gave him a copy this winter. I think Siltbreeze is consistently the U.S.'s coolest label so far, and I'm real proud to be associated with them.

T.L: Is there any more unreleased material lying around from your Blue Humans days?

ALAN: There's a couple of outakes from the LP sessions that Thurston may or may not get around to releasing someday, some fairly murky live tapes, and that's about it. I played bowed guitar and it was a really great set, kind of Life With the Lions-esque. That CD only documents the first year of the band. After that , I was less frenzied, more into droning feedback. Thurston would play with us a lot, and he would be real rhythmic. So it would be really dense, with Rudolph wailing on top. I think it became more interesting to cut it back on one guitar. I would've preferred it to be my guitar (ha, ha), but I guess you can't really expect that. Anyway, like Tom Surgal (Blue Humans drummer) said, not everybosy gets replaced by Charles Gayle (on drums!) when they get kicked out of a band, so I can't complain too much.

T.L: I thought with Rudolph having penned the book (Nightmare of Ecstasy, which served as a basis for Tim Burton's film Ed Wood), he would have been busier and having less time for the Blue Humans?

ALAN: The Blue Humans actually played out more than ever this past year, even playing England, all after I left. Rudolph's way more into trying to do movies himself, kind of in the Ed Wood spirit, than he is doing more gigs and records. In the meantime, I did one show with Surgal, cellist Fred Lonberg-Holm, and Lin Culbertson of Spoiler that was Blue Humans-like, kind of Ash Ra meets Blue Humans or something.

T.L: What is the current state of the NYC improv scene?

ALAN: Actually, I'm pretty burned out on free jazz right now. We used to see gigs every week in NYC, I think I've seen Gayle and (William) Hooker fifty times each easy. It's like enough, already! Anyway, improv is totally unfashionable in NY, predictably, I guess, composition is in, although now it seems to be called "totalism," whatever the fuck that means. But improv is often (usually, actually) handled so poorly it's no great loss to see it go. When Evan Parker and Cerek Bailey come to NY and the best thing they can come up for a drummer is a dipshit like Greg Bendian then it's like, time to fuckin' bail. Brotzmann played with that guy too, but he was so wasted it wouldn't have mattered it he was playing with Elvin Jones, it still would've sucked. Evan did do a great show when he played solo and then dueted with Braxton, so things aren't totally hopeless. Zussan Kali Fasteau plays, William Parker plays, Ware plays once in a while, and kinda half-ass guys like Rob Brown and Matthew Shipp. I dunno, I'd rather go see Slant 6 or something at this stage of the game. There are younger groups like NNCKBLS and United Noise coming from a rock background and doing free improv, but it's very hit or miss.

T.L: Listening to some Jazz radio shows I seem to detect a kind of resentment coming from the more traditional jazz community over the "crossover"; indie rock entering the picture, Spin writing about David Ware and William Hooker, them signing to Homestead...is this valid?

ALAN: I doubt any "trad jazz" fans are aware of Ware or Hooker's on earth let alone their label dealings...I know Hooker is delighted to be on Homestead. There's a certain amount of curiosity about him in the indie circles just because of his association with Thurston and now Lee too. But how many indie listeners can make the connection between a ten-minute Ira Kaplan feedback guitar solo and a ten-minute David Ware sax solo remains to be seen. If anything, the idea of an indie rock label releasing a straight free jazz disc is a major step forward from the fusion days of the early 70s or the Luther Thomas/Blood Ulmer/Shannon Jackson junk of the early 80s, all of which was "rock-y" and aimed at a "rock" audience. although I guess you could argue that Hooker is "noisy" and aimed at a "noise" audience. Ware isn't, though.

T.L: How did you hook up with Loren Mazzacane? The interplay between you on the live tape you sent was interesting in that there was some common ideas shared, although I can't imagine his forthcoming duo thing with Haino Keiji.

ALAN: I initially met Loren just because I went to some of his concerts and introduced myself because we were both featured on the same side of Bob Moore's 3LP compilation Breathe on the Living. He invited me to play with him in January of 1993 and we did three or four shows since, including the Table of Elements showcase in NY. Our show at CB Gallery's in February of 94 is being released as an LP on New World of Sound early this year. I like the tape of that show a lot, but I'm not sure what purpose there is for me playing with him. He seems more suited to playing solo. His music is pretty lonesome. Similarly Haino Keiji is left to his own devices. I saw the gig that he and Loren did together, which, I guess, is coming out as an LP eventually. It was more the two of them playing solo at the same time than interacting in any real way.

T.L: I've only heard about the Haino gigs. They're supposedly pretty legendary. Would you ever consider a one-off duo thing if approached?

ALAN: The best Haino gigs I've seen have been solo or with Fushitsusha, where he's in total control. These Zorn-arranged things where he plays with Marc Ribot or something are invariably fruitless. So no, I don't have any interest in playing "with" Haino. He is totally incredible though.

T.L: What have you been listening to lately?

ALAN: What I haven't been listening to lately is more significant than what I have been. I rarely listen to free jazz or free improv, very rarely modern classical. I listened to the latest Stereolab, Guided By Voices, and Sebadoh CD's when I first got 'em and almost never afterwards. Most experimental stuff I get through Forced Exposure I listen to once. Some older records I got into in the last couple of years include TUSK (Fleetwood Mac), Flowers of Romance (PiL), Like Flies on Sherbet (Alex Chilton), Corky's Debt (Mayo Thompson), Flying Doesn't Help (Anthony Moore's first solo LP), Paris 1919 (John Cale) and Rubber Soul. The Jon Spencers Blues Explosion and Cibo Matto are New York's best. I also like Nirvana a lot, believe it or not.

T.L: What was it like playing out with Arthur Lee?

ALAN: My "tours" with Arthur lee deserve a whole separate interview, but to boil it down, yeah, he's way out there but also pretty sharp and his voice is still incredible. If you ask me, the original members of Love deserve more credit for these songs than they ever get 'cause Arthur by himself has never equaled that stuff. His "current" material is his joke. But he's basically a down-home guy, a sweet guy. I'll never forget when he hugged me on-stage at Tramps -- he loves my guitar playing.

T.L: Any feelings in retrospect about Love Child?

ALAN: Well, I dunno. Byron Coley wrote that the original line-up was like if the Velvets were only Moe, Doug Yule, and Agnus MacLise, so I wrote and said it was more like the Beatles were just George, Ringo, and Astrid Krichnerr. Also, nobody ever pointed out how big our noses were/are. I think the Moondog EP still holds up, a lot of Witchcraft does too, but I don't think about Love Child much. It's over and done.

T.L: Anything else you'd like to mention?

ALAN: I'm in a trio now with Connie Burg of Marx/Don King/Lydia fame on bass clarinet and Melissa Weaver on piano. I don't play pipe organ, not guitar. We rehearse in a church in Chelsea and will probably never play out but plan to do some 4-track recording and get a record out. It kinda reminds me of Nico circa Marble Index and Marble Shore, except no singing of course. I have no keyboard training or anything, I just kinda drone away.

I'd also like to take this opportunity to list my ever-so-clever ideas for songs for Run On to cover, none of which those dopes have seen fit to accept:

"My Girlfriend Lives Like A Beatnik": Half-Japanese
"Cough/Cool": Misfits
"Song To Be Abe Lincoln": Roky Erickson
"I Want To Take You Higher": Sly and the Family Stone
"License to Confuse": Sebadoh
"Dear Betty Baby": Mayo Thompson
"Circles": The Who
"Gorilla": Warren Zevon
"Bangkok": Alex Chilton
"Rated X": Miles Davis
"Dark End of the Street"
We did do "Boy Can I Dance Good" by the Pagans at CBGB with James McNew on drums and Rick Brown on noise guitar. I wanted Rick Luanda to sing but he demurred.

LICHTOGRAPHY (as of 1995)

w/Love Child

Love Child 7" EP (Trash Flow, 1989, Alan with Rebecca Odes and Will Baum)
Love Child plays Moondog 7" (Forced Exposure, 1990, Alan with Rebecca Odes)
Okay? LP (Homestead, 1991, Alan with Rebecca and Will)
"Six of One"/"Sleepyhead" 7" (Homestead, 1992)
Witchcraft LP (Homestead, 1992, Alan with Rebecca and Brendan O'Malley), LP on City Slang GER drops "Six of One" and adds "Polly for a Day" and "Polly, noon, and..."
"Stumbling Block"/"Six of One" 7" (City Slang, Germany, 1992)
"Erotomania" from various artists dbl 7" This Is Art Hoboken (Radiation, Spain, 1992)
"Ponytail" from Beat Happening Tribute LP Fortune Cookie Prize (Simple Machines 1992)
John Peel Session (four songs, unreleased, 1992)

w/Rudolph Grey and The Blue Humans

Mask of Light LP (Ecstatic Peace, 1991)
"To A Higher Time" 7" (Ecstatic Peace, 1993)
Clear to Higher Time LP (Ecstatic Peace, 1993)

w/Run On

"Days Away" 7" EP (Ajax, 1994)
Rick Brown and Alan duo on A MICA 93) comp cassette (no label, 1994)

w/Tara Key

Appears on "Need to Need" on Tara's Bourbon County LP (Homestead, 1994)

solo

"Betty Page" from Breathe on the Living 3LP compilation (Locust, 1990)
Calvin Johnson Has Ruined Rock For An Entire Generation 7" (1994, 18-Wheeler)

"Protocols of the Elders of Zion"; taken from split 7" with A Handful of Dust that comes with the fanzine Crank (1994)

Sink the Aging Process LP (Siltbreeze, 1994)